Making Your Purpose The Foundation of Your Strategy
May 10, 2022 | On the Hourly to Exit Podcast
Katie Burkhart appeared on the Hourly to Exit podcast for a conversation with host Erin Austin. She talked about how to cut through the noise by running a purpose-driven business.
Listen to the episode below.
read the transcript
excuse any typos as we tried to capture the conversation as it happened.
Erin: Welcome to the Hourly to Exit podcast. Today, I am joined by Katie Burkhart. I am so excited to have you here today. Thank you for joining me, Katie!
Katie: Thank you so much for having me. I'm really excited for this conversation, and I'm so excited that you're getting this podcast off the ground.
Erin: Oh, thank you! I have written about kind of the journey and so...but it's exciting and fun. And I love to have conversations like this with super smart people, which is the best part of my day. So, speaking of super smart people, can you share a little bit about yourself—about what you do and who you serve?
Katie: Absolutely. So, I kind of like to classify myself as an accidental entrepreneur but an unapologetic workaholic. So, I love what I do. I kind of stumbled into my career in a non-linear way. My first paid job was as a lifeguard, and I spent most of my time in that job watching the clock tick by. I felt pretty passionately that I did not want to spend my life that way, so I needed to make sure that I was doing work that was really fulfilling to me.
And over my journey, I've been really fortunate to work with amazing people and do things that I thoroughly enjoy doing every day. But I have actually shaped my path to try to help others—to make sure that they're doing work that matters every day and that there's a point to how they're spending their time. So, I work primarily with organizations of between 50 and 500 people. We'll take people bigger but, predominantly, that's where we spend our time helping them to actually make “what's the point” the key question that they answer. And to start putting the structures in place that allow them to do that at scale so they are really making the impact that they want to make. They're making the progress that they want to make, and they're scaling the reach the way that they'd really like to.
Erin: Oh, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. So, one of the reasons I'm really excited to talk to you is because my mission is to help build an economy that works for everyone. And my mantra is that wealth in the hands of women can change the world.
Katie: Yes, it can.
Erin: Yes, it can. I mean, we know that women give away more of their wealth. Even when they have less of it, they give larger percentages. They share it more broadly—community, family, societal issues—and they're very mindful about the way they use their donations. And so this is... maybe you can help me with this one—cause I've been trying to find a study and I've been unsuccessful so far—that talks about what female founder-owners do for their employees and whether or not the nature of the benefits that employees get with female founders is different. And I'm kind of suspecting it is, right? Just haven't found the study that that shows that yet.
Katie: Well, one thing I can throw out there for you is Aaron Hurst, who's the author of the book The Purpose Economy and now runs a company called Imperative. And they do—I'm going to get this wrong—but I believe the report is called the State of Purpose or the State of the Purpose Workforce Report every year. And one of the things that he learned from that report is that women are, and I'm going to forget the percent, but are increasingly more inclined to be purposeful and purpose-driven and to care about those things. So, I think your instinct that they're going to approach things differently naturally is a hundred percent correct. And I would say I can bear out at least experientially and anecdotally that the founders that I work with tend to be more female than male. Not always.
We found some amazingly purpose-driven males who really just click right into the mindset right away, but women seem to kind of get it naturally in more increasing numbers and are more inclined to care about the people that they serve. We have to generally have less conversations about how you're in this because you're trying to serve your customer, you also deliver value to your team, and these things are really important. It's not really about you. They have a tendency to already be there and be asking questions about how they do it better and are they doing it really effectively versus having to have a conversation about it in the first place. And that's a sweeping generality. I try not to over-genderize since we have some awesome, awesome men that we're working with as well. But there does seem to be a trend out there, at least in that particular report.
Erin: Yeah. And it seems like generally, people spend—even if they're at home—they spend the majority of their waking hours working. And so having that connection with their employers, feeling like they're part of something, feeling like they care, feeling like there's something more than just kind of clocking in and clocking out. It’ll be trending upwards. Our consumers are thinking that way. They want to identify with the people whose money they are giving, and employees want to identify with the people, the employers, that they're working with. And so, I imagine that has affected your work and the people who are coming to you and why they're coming to you.
Katie: Yes. And the baseline for us, which makes us a little unique in how we talk about it, is most people hear the word purpose and they think positive impact. “We're going to go out and save the whales.” And that’s really amazing. And we're like, “That's cool if that's what you're here to do. The whales matter.” But there are lots and lots and lots of things you can do to deliver value out into the world versus add to the noise. And purpose is really about focus and really about making sure that you're making the most of the time that you invest in your work. And I can think very specifically of... I was speaking to a group of people, and I finished the presentation. And the first question was, “If I am not super obsessed over my work, if my life's mission is not to change the world, but I work because I enjoy what I do and I need money to live, but I really want to spend time with my family and whatever else, does that mean I'm doing it wrong?”
And I was very quick to be like, “No, you are not doing it wrong. You are doing you,” which is the big piece of this. Because what it comes down to is time—where does he want to put his time, and how does work fit into that equation, and helping him to make sure that it's totally worth it to me to spend my time here at work because they're going to pay me. It allows me to do a skill that I enjoy doing and to do a really good job at it, but then, I have the flexibility to go do these other things. So, I think one of the big pieces that we talk about with organizations is that having a purpose does not mean that you're walking around with little purpose robots reading the script back to you and nodding. This is not a Kool-Aid conversation.
It's about having a really good reason to exist in the first place ‘cause we don't need another...like “do we really need to be doing this in the first place?” And then making sure, down to every meeting you schedule, that there's a good point to be asking the people on the phone to get on the call because they could be putting their time into something else at work that would be more productive or their time into something else that would be more valuable to them. So really looking at that time piece is huge and getting people to think about it that way has been a really, really exciting conversation because we're pulling different people into the mix who didn't necessarily identify this way before.
Erin: Yeah. So when you look at—'cause when you look at it, it's not just about what you're being paid but also having the flexibility. ‘Cause there's different ways to measure wealth. And do you consider purpose a way to measure wealth in the same way you might talk about time? Maybe you don't always talk about time as a way to measure wealth, but having purpose is another way that, if we look at it, is kind of almost like self-actualization. You don't put a number on it, but it certainly adds to the enrichment.
Katie: Absolutely. And I—thinking about—I was reading an article by someone called Rob Henderson, who was writing on a concept he coined called “luxury values.” And he made the point that really hit me in the face. A number of his points did, but this one hit me because he said that the concept of working for something that you're passionate about—or using the phrase, “It's not just a job”—in its own way is a luxury value because you're in a situation where you can make that choice. You can choose to pick a career that is both fulfilling and financially profitable. There are many people who need the job because they need the paycheck. And that's the end of the conversation. So I think, absolutely, the fact that you're in a position to make that decision is huge.
I like to think about it in my own family this way. My grandparents were 17 and 18 when they got married. They had my mom a year later. My grandfather got to finish high school. My grandparents did not get to go to college. And they worked their butts off. The conversation of what job they wanted was not on the table. It was what job they needed to make sure that they could pay their bills, take care of their family, et cetera. And they did it well. I commend them for being able to do that. And they wanted to get their child further. So, my mother went to college, got a master's, was able to get out doing work that she enjoyed. But even she, once she had a family and other factors, had to make decisions based on what she had to do versus what she wants to do.
And at this point in the third chapter of her life, she is looking to scale to exit. You are going to have a conversation with someone to really push that out and have conversations about “what do I want to do” and “what can I make money doing it” versus “I have to do this.” I'm much younger, and I'm already having those conversations. So absolutely. I think it's one way to look at the wealth if you have that...you're in a position ‘cause to me it comes down to choice in how you spend your time. You have that choice.
Erin: Yeah. Yeah. Arguably, we have a generation coming up who will all demand that type of connection to the work that you're doing. So we talked about this briefly, but many people think that there is an inherent conflict between purpose and profit. Is there, and if there isn't, why not? How do we reconcile that too?
Katie: So let me...one of my favorite stories to talk about is Forrest Gump ‘cause I love Forrest Gump. I love the movie. And there's a great scene where he's watching the television aimlessly, and it's such a wonderful metaphor for all the noise in our life. And somebody says, “I'm gonna teach you how to play ping pong.” And the first lesson he gives is, “Never take your eye off the ball,” which Forrest follows without question because it's Forrest. And what we've done over time is that we used to think that the ball was money and everything we did was to make more money. It didn't matter how hard and burnt-out we pushed our team. It didn't matter what we did to the environment. It didn't matter what happened over the long term. If it made us more money today, that's what we did.
Right? So to say that the business didn't have a point is incorrect. It did. What's changed is that's not the point. That is going to be most effective for your business over the long haul. What really needs to be the point is your purpose. What value are you here to deliver to the world? Everything you're doing needs to drive towards delivering that value—from what products we offer, how do we offer them, how do we support our team so that they can do their absolute best work so that we're getting this value out to the people we serve the best way that we possibly can? Where money comes in is that money is now not the goal. It's the outcome of effectively pursuing that purpose. If you're delivering value, someone is not only going to pay you for it, but they're going to pay you again and again and again. Now you're building a long-term, lasting company, and you have the financial resources you need to continue to scale that reach, take care of your team, and build in additional infrastructure so that you can keep growing.
Erin: Oh, that is so good. I love that so much. And do you find with—I'm just gonna go to the male versus female dynamic for a second—that women have more trouble with thinking about profit in this way? Like that if I'm too profit-focused, then somehow I'm taking away from being good?
Katie: I don't find a gender dynamic to that. I find a size dynamic to that. Smaller businesses make the shift quicker because they can, or they're still in the stages. On the whole, the vast majority of founders of the last 10 to 20 years didn't just found their business to make lots and lots of money. There was some other reason that got them into jumping off into their startup, quitting their job, or whatever it was—could have been solving a problem, could have been something else. So there was something else there, and in their earlier stages—whether they're doing it deliberately or accidentally because you have very close contact to that founder—they can keep it together.
As they get bigger, this becomes harder. And I find that bigger companies, bigger brands struggle very much with this idea of “purpose isn't a tactic to make you more money.” Like, if we run this really cool ad campaign, or we make this donation over here, then we have purpose. And we'll be able to reengage those employees who are leaving, or it'll look better in the market. What we're finding is that that's blowing up in their face because it is the definition of superficial, versus really understanding what this means and what it's all about. So we—part of the reason we work with smaller organizations is—we know we're going to be more likely to steer the whole ship versus that one wing way off to the side who kind of gets it. That's just my experience.
Erin: You're reminding me of—I mean, this is 20 some years ago—when I was a young lawyer at a big firm, working mostly with public companies, and there was a movement at the time for corporate social responsibility. And it was this whole—it was very, “Can you just figure this out so we can continue making as much money and doing whatever we're doing?” And it was very much segregated. It was absolutely not part of the entire business. And what they were coming to lawyers about was, “Is this a breach of our duties to our stockholders?” Because our one and only obligation, they thought at the time, was to maximize profits. Like that was all we're here for. If we're doing anything other than maximizing profits, then we are in breach of our duties to our stockholders.
And how do we figure out how to be good and still maximize returns for our stockholders? And so, I can imagine when you get bigger—even when you're still a private company—you do have all these stakeholders that you feel are responsible to, that you feel like you need to continue to maximize those returns. So yeah, I can definitely see that.
So, a couple of times you've mentioned cutting through the noise. Tell me what exactly you mean by that.
Katie: So, we're in a state of having so much. The world is moving so fast. There are so many shiny new ideas out there to pursue, so much new technology. The technology we already have...just the amount of notifications you get on your phone every day. I've got messages here, Slack over there. And like, I want to talk about that. I have like 12 different Slack channels ‘cause that's how Slack works. It's overwhelming how much noise is really out there. And even noise within your own business. You have competing priorities in a lot of organizations because we're just here to make money. There's a lot of ways to make money, in case you wondering.
So very quickly you can have, “This sub-team thinks this would be really great,” “This sub-team over here thinks this is really great,”and “HR is super excited about X, Y, Z.” And you can have just an absolutely aimless noise. That can be really overwhelming. Even for organizations that I worked with early in my career, helping them to determine what their Core strategy really was—even for them, the noise would seep in. A new person would come in with a new idea that has nothing to do with the strategy. It was hard to do the strategy we laid out. So, we were looking for an easier way, but that kind of took us...we started to drift.
So, I think about noise both personally, in what's going on with the world and in what's going on within your organization. Really sitting down and asking yourself, what's the point? Why did we found this company? Why are we all coming to work every day? Why are we choosing to take on this project? Why are we choosing to execute it this way? What's the point? What’s it supposed to move us to?
It brings an awful lot of focus and clarity and starts to get people to say, “Well, if it doesn't align with our purpose, the answer should be no”—which is my favorite word on the planet to say. No. It is the ultimate productivity hack. We can only be so efficient. So, start to say no and focus on the things that are really gonna drive that value so that you're not asking your team to push paper on a project for two months that you then up canceling because somebody changed their mind. What an awful thing to do to somebody.
Erin: Well, maybe that gets to my next question. How does a business know that they need you? ‘Cause they don't know what the point is.
Katie: Groups call us for different reasons. One of them is, “We are struggling to tell our story.” It's a symptom of a larger problem, but the leadership...sometimes it's somebody in communications who's like, “Hey, we're out there. We're trying to talk about it, but I don't think we're doing it real consistently and people aren't totally understanding us. Can you help us with that?” The answer is yes. And it's typically a sign that we aren't really clear on the value we're delivering and probably don't have a good understanding of the people we serve. And that's a really good place to start. We also have organizations that call us around strategic planning because they're like, “Hey, we're getting ready to lay out our next three years. We really wanna do it differently this time. We know we have not been as comprehensive as we should be. We want to involve our team in this process because they should be. And we really want to make sure, on the other end, we have the system and structure in place. That we're really going to do something with this plan versus sit it over there.”
And one of the other statements that we'll get is, “So what? We also want to know from those systems that the fact that we offered 20% more webinars this year to our members actually did something to help the members. So how do we put those measurement systems in place as well?” And then the third time people will call us is because they're merging. And they're either trying to be proactive or, in more cases, they merged and it did not go as well as they would have hoped. And now they're looking for some pruning. How do we come in, get everybody on the same page, and prune out and evolve where it is that we're going. Going forward versus being stuck in things we've done this way because we've always done them this way.
Erin: Gotcha. And can you share a favorite story with one of your success stories with one of your clients?
Katie: Oh, that's a…favorite success story. That's a hard one. I love working with groups. One of my favorite stories was sitting on a—we do a lot of our work and facilitated sessions—and it was a group where we had gone out and we had done all the listening. And we'd listened to a number of their stakeholders, and they had made a perfectly valid assumption that, by bringing in some of these partners, they would be able to help fulfill their mission. They would do some of the leg work to move things along. And what they found was that this partner approach, the partners were basically telling them, “We don't have time for that,” and it was this amazing moment of showing them the responses and going through what we learned by talking to them and having quiet.
And one of the members of the organization on the phone said, “You mean to tell me that they're just not gonna do it? And if that's the case, we don't really need to keep beating our head against the wall. We need like a new approach to how we're trying to solve this problem.” And I was like, “Yes.” But what I love about that story was it really came from the listening piece. I think a lot of us get very excited about what we're doing. I'm guilty; I'm a founder. I do it all the time. I'm like, “This is a great idea. Yes.” And then I'm like, “Katie, go out and ask the people it's supposed to help. And the people you're going to need to get it done. And make sure it's actually a great idea, not just something cool that you thought up while taking a shower.”
So that piece is really huge, but that's one of my favorite stories ‘cause I just loved the bold reaction. And I have another client with a similar story where they...watching them shift their language has been really wonderful. Which sounds so micro but watching that totally shift—I'm a big believer that language is how we make meaning. So if you just shift a word, all of a sudden your approach is gonna be totally different because the meaning is different. So I love getting to watch that as well.
Erin: So, is there a new vocabulary around this that you helped your clients kind of understand?
Katie: So fun that you ask that! ‘Cause that's what I'm working on right now. Yes and no. I am adamant. And in fact, I put it in my tag that I'm a jargon slayer. I loathe the fact that the way—you will appreciate this cause you're in law, right—we don't delete old laws. We write new laws to unwrite laws that we've already written. So, language is kind of similar. We're now marketing this new text. So, I need a new word because that's how I'm going to distinguish myself from the old words that are on the market. And all that seems to add, in most cases, there's a whole lot of words nobody really understands. So what we're doing is saying, yes, there's a new language, but in most cases, it's not about inventing new words. It's about picking the right ones that are really shaping the right meaning.
So, one of the ones that's had a lot of impact with some of the organizations I've been talking to is train versus teach. You train a dog; you teach a human. And it's very obvious that people, even in my own interviewing for people from my own team, that they're really looking to join employers who are invested and helping them to learn, helping them to upskill, helping them to do that over the course of their life.
But as soon as you say teach, I look at that very differently. I look at it more broadly. I look at it more humanly than training somebody to do something that fits within the system, within the machine of my business. So that's been one small example of how we're starting to look through that but do everything that we can to cut out those words that people are using and don't have a whole lot of meaning. Not add to that noise but really try to get clear on, “Hey, how about we start talking about it this way?”
I'll leave you with this one. Since we were talking about the finances, the idea of a cost versus an investment, so often we get really hung up on these are all the costs to do something. Nobody likes costs. But when we start thinking about it as an investment, now you're thinking like a purpose-driven business. You're making money because it's a resource. How are you going to invest it? What's the point of investing it there? How is it going to help to move us forward?
Erin: Ah, gotcha. I love this. So, when you talk about research, make sure that what you are interested in doing, there's somebody out there. How do you approach research?
Katie: Personally? That's been a fun one. So, it's taken us some time. My first phase is always to go out and read first because it's easy and you can do it by yourself. So I like to read what's going on in thought leadership. What are people struggling with? Ask the Public (ATP) is a great website where you can put in your terms and it'll come back and tell you what questions people are Googling around that term, which may lead you to believe “somebody's actually interested in knowing this!” So that it's like, okay, where do people think their problems and challenges are? And then I usually start to speak on it. That’s another way that I've done some research, as far as, “Am I talking about this in a way that you understand it?” Because if you don't understand it, then I can't even get to whether or not I'm being valuable because my litmus test coming back will be wrong.
Then I start to identify old business versus new business, as someone who's in business. I then go out and talk to actual customers. These are people that paid me money to do something. What did they think they need? How did they talk about it? What has their experience been like? What did they think the value was? So that I'm really learning from them, in their words, what they think when we're working with clients.
We're typically working with not new organizations, organizations that have been around long enough to get to at least 50 people. In which case, they have people they serve, they have a team, et cetera. So, we want to bring them together in facilitated conversations to actually ask them very key questions to understand how they're experiencing value. What's exciting to them? What challenges are in their way in their ability to do their job? All of those pieces, so that we can come back and say,
“Hey, this is what we're learning.”
We actually then go back and validate out what we think we heard. So that there, it's not like, “Oh, you totally misunderstood me.” We can come back and have them say, “Yeah, that's totally it!” And when you're getting that really excited response, you know that you've nailed it.
Erin: All right. Yeah. I mean, research is one of those underutilized tools, whether it's through conversations, just having—writing about it and all those things help inform your point of view. Here are the questions people are asking. Where’s the opportunity?
I am obsessed with research and how to do it most effectively. And I have heard part of that value is getting that feedback, just constantly getting feedback about what your thoughts are and making sure you're not hiding them. Making sure you're giving them, testing them. And it is a struggle for any of us. You're remotely shy, right? To kind of put our thoughts out there to get that feedback. But it is always so valuable. I learn so much. Every conversation I have, every time I post something, you learn something new.
Katie: It's huge, and I'm a perfectionist person. And it's been it—we would have moved forward faster had I been more comfortable just putting it out there and seeing how people responded. But I took a very long time to feel like I had it together before I shared it with people. I don't regret it or anything. But it's something I say to other people. Be comfortable that you're going to try some posts, you're going to talk about some topics. You're going to talk about it in a certain way. And some of them may not work, but what that tells you is you didn't hit it yet. And I like to—I say on meetings all the time, I'm happy to be proven wrong. And everyone—once in a blue moon, someone will ask me why that sounds really awful. Don’t you want to have the answers? You're coming in to help me with something. I said, “Yes, but when somebody proves me wrong, it gives me a chance and an opportunity to learn something new.” And that's always an amazing opportunity.
Erin: Right? And ultimately, we are here to serve. And so, if we aren't meeting a need, then what are we doing here?
Katie: Exactly, exactly. Adding more noise nobody needed.
Erin: So, this is the Hourly to Exit podcast. So we help people build scalable and saleable businesses. And we do that by helping them create exclusivity in the form of assets, like intellectual property, as well as having a strong and unique market position and having predictability. So, in order to exit, you need—the acquirer needs to know that this is a business that can thrive without you, that you have processes in place, that your revenue projections are going to hold up. So, in the context of building a scalable and saleable business, where does the work that you do, helping people have purpose-driven business, where does it fit in?
Katie: So, I think our work really fits in in, one, making sure that they're clear in the first place. That, to your point, there is a need, and that we know who they are, we understand them, and we can actually deliver the value they're looking for. Because you're definitely not going to scale if you can't get that question answered, just drive yourself nuts. The second piece that we do is we help to put the structures in place so that you can keep growing that way. And I think that's where, from helping you to document your processes and making sure that you know what they are, to helping make sure you have a good process for meetings, to making sure that you know how to do planning on an annual and three-year basis. Really helping to build those skills and make sure that they're done in a way that aligns with the point of being there.
And you know, what the point of what you're doing is, I think, where we really fit into that equation. Because we really are keyed into people who want to grow what it is that they're doing—as well as people working with distributed teams, which I think will continue to be the norm. So, making sure that you have those right structures in place is going to be critical since you can no longer kind of rely on swinging by Bob's cubicle and seeing if you're on track for that X, Y, Z. You're going to need to have the right systems in place.
Erin: Yeah. You know, that is awesome. And I actually thought you were going to also go to the kind of unique market position. Does part of what you work help them kind of rise above the noise?
Katie: Yes. I think you can definitely say that. But in some cases it's about—I think some people hear that and they think, “We're gonna be the only one because we're the best, most amazing whatever.” And actually, for a lot of our organizations, what they find is that focus is allowing them to stay narrow and go deep which makes 'em a really effective business, and effective over the long haul. But not necessarily that they're looking to be all things to all people, which is a really interesting conversation when you get to unique market position and how people think about that. And I think a lot of people see it as the only versus seeing it as the best for these people, which is how we like to think about it.
Erin: That is great. Well, this is a very meta podcast because I am an expertise-based business who is looking to hopefully build it to sell someday. You run an expertise-based business. So, I’d like to ask, are you thinking about building your business to sell someday?
Katie: Yes. Yes I am, which is an exciting thing to think about as someone who loves what she does. I mentioned at the beginning, I'm an accidental entrepreneur. I didn't wake up and be like, “I'm gonna build a really huge business. That's my calling.” That had not crossed my mind. I was really excited to go out and solve a problem I had identified and figure out how to do that.
And for me, I saw a Jeff Bezos quote as I was aimlessly scrolling through social media, which I'm slowly deleting so that I don't do that. It said, “Be really stubborn on the vision, but be flexible on the details.” And to me, the vision is really helpful. I was like, “My vision is to help people make ‘what's the point’ the key question they're asking, so that they're really making the most of their time.” In how I go about delivering that, I have a lot of flexibility. And recently, we've been making some changes in how we approach that and how we really start to scale that. And part of it is, as an expertise-based business, making sure we've got our signature solution in place and that we can continue to grow it as I take on a different role with the company scaling its reach.
Erin: That is exciting. Well, you are a young woman, for those of us who are listening instead of watching. So have you thought about what your next chapter might be if you were to exit your business?
Katie: Yes. And in fact, I gave it a name already. I would really like to build a fund in the next chapter of my business and actually get into how do I fund people trying to run these focused types of businesses—for or non-profit, does not matter—and help them go out and really deliver the value they need to deliver? Especially if I can get into the early stages in a productive way. Because I think for so many people, there's a huge hump to get off the ground because most of us are not independently wealthy. But I don't love how many people are sort of selling their soul to the VC firm, who's going to build out your business in a very particular way that is in their best interest—not necessarily in yours or that of your vision. So, figuring out a way to do that, that is effective. I don't have an answer to the how, but I can tell you that's what I think about doing. And then hopefully, spending time teaching and helping to pass things on to other people.
Erin: Yeah. Oh, that's great. Well, that's also something to keep in mind as you—kind of that incentive to keep going through the tough spots. So as we wrap up, I have three final questions. I'll ask them one at a time. One is, here, we like to support organizations that create a more equitable society, and I am wondering if there is a person or organization that has inspired you that you'd like to share with the audience.
Katie: So, the organization that I'm currently supporting is the Lyric Stage Company of Boston. I actually sit on the board. I've had the pleasure of working with them when I was in college. I got to work with them professionally and then come back to be a board member. So obviously, I really like what they're doing. And what I love about what they do is they're a theater company that's focused on telling stories that are really centered on the person—really centered on the character and who they are as a human being. And I think they do a wonderful job of hitting all sorts of different types of people and really getting me, as an audience member, engaged around what their story is, what they experience, and get me to think about it—which I love.
Erin: Awesome. Are you a thespian?
Katie: I was originally, but not the acting kind. I cannot act. I had an acting teacher actually—I took one acting course because you had to—and the teacher said to me, “I don't think you can be anybody except you.” And I was like, “I'm gonna take that as a compliment. Yes. And be good with that. And go on. Cause it's just not my skill.” I was a designer. So, I spent time doing that piece of it.
Erin: Well, Pete Davidson's making an entire career out of playing himself, and others before him have done so as well. So, there's something to be...
Both: Said for that, I suppose.
Erin: So, do you have an offer or something that you'd like to share with the audience?
Katie: Hmm. Things I'd like to share? So my big offer is, if you would like to talk about anything that I just shared, if you're interested in how we're looking at purpose and purpose-driven and what that means and how we can help you find focus, or even just because I said something funny and you'd like to get to know me better, please connect with me on LinkedIn. Drop me a message. I am happy to make the time to sit and get to know you and see if there's something I can do to help you in your business.
Erin: Yeah. Well, thank you. My last one was where can people find you. So LinkedIn and…?
Katie: Number one. Yes. Second place that you can find me is to join our Weekly Logic Community. So, the way we define, understand, and actually have people use the purpose-driven model is something we call MatterLogic. And we send out—and by we, I mean me, direct from me to you—we send out a weekly email with one thing that's an actionable item that you can use at your organization right away to help you be more focused and help you cut through that noise. So, I invite you to come and join me and join that very exciting community. All you have to do is go to matterlogic.co/weekly and jump on the list.
Erin: That's fantastic. There has been so much good stuff in this interview. Thank you so much, Katie. I'm going to add mega show notes after this—websites, books, I mean, all sorts of stuff that we've talked about here that I think will be super helpful for everyone to revisit. Obviously, I’ll be including your website and your offer. Thank you again for being here. It has been an absolute joy, and I hope we'll do this again sometime.
Katie: Ah, sounds absolutely wonderful from my point of view. I would always love to join you and talk more about how we're scaling our businesses and how we're getting women's money out there into the world because that sounds pretty okay to me.
Erin: Yes, please. All right. Thank you.
Katie: Thank you.
Erin: Thanks for listening. Do not forget to check out the show notes for links to connect with today's guest and for the resources, offers, and organizations that we discussed. You can also find the links at hourlytoexit.com/podcast. If you got value from this episode, please subscribe, and I'd be so grateful for a review. I'm here to support your journey.