Strategic Planning vs. Brand Strategy with Katie Burkhart
February 2024
In this discussion, Cosmic Creative Director Eric Ressler is joined by Katie Burkhart, the mastermind behind Matter Logic. Together Eric and Katie discuss ways of defining strategic planning, the purpose and process of effective strategic planning for social impact organizations, the essential components of a strategic plan both internally and externally, and the key differences between a strategic plan and a brand strategy.
Listen to the conversation below.
read the transcript
excuse any typos as we tried to capture the conversation as it happened.
Eric Ressler: Today, we're joined by Katie Burkhart, the mastermind behind MatterLogic. Katie is an essentialist thinker, an entrepreneur contributor, A thoughtful speaker and a jargon slayer, she shifts your focus by asking, what's the point? We talk about how to define strategic planning, What the purpose and process of effective strategic planning for social impact organizations looks like, what a strategic plan should be able to answer for your internal team as well as partners and the difference between a strategic plan and a brand strategy. We also talk about how a strategic plan can and should support your marketing and vice versa. And in this conversation, we had the opportunity to go deep on all of these concepts.
I really enjoyed it personally and learned a lot, and I think it's really valuable if you're in the social Impact space in trying to figure out how you can leverage [00:01:00] strategy and design to be more effective at your work. Without further ado, we'll dive in. So, Katie, thanks so much for joining us today. We got connected through a mutual colleague and started talking all things strategy, Design, the kinda weird Venn diagram between our two disciplines, and we're really excited to just have a conversation. So we'll dive right in.
The first thing I'd love to get your take on is how do you define strategic planning in your work with your clients? So
Katie Burkhart: we Actually, when we sit and work with clients, while they may be coming to us saying, hey. We need help with our strategic planning process. We don't actually use that phrase Anywhere, in the way that we talk about our work, and usually have to part of what our process is with clients is to help them rethink And sort of undo some of that and approach strategy differently. The way we understand strategy is that you have a core As a business, [00:02:00] and you need to make choices based on that core.
That's what strategy is, is making those choices, and not just making them Every five years at a grandiose level, but making choices every single day, about what you do as a business and how you go about doing it. That's how we really get you to become truly strategic across the board. So really thinking through that is always step one. As far as what happens to the plan part, like, how do we know what we're doing? We always like to spend time, and we can dive more into this because of its Very deep overlap with brand, looking at the business's design.
But when you think about what is traditionally included in a strategic planning process, what people are looking for is, well, where are my goals and where are my my budget and how do I know what the plan is? You can call it a variety of different things. We typically use the term road map, and you can make that road map over Whatever time horizons you would like, and what works for [00:03:00] you in your organization and the pace of your organization, but that's where you can put in those, hey. Here's where we are now. Here's what we wanna achieve, and then these are the steps that we're going to take to go about hitting those targets or meeting those milestones.
So that part is fantastic. Some processes include both at the same time, some do them separately. For us, we always start with a strategy and we start with it alone, To make sure that we really understand that we were clear on the value that the business exists to deliver and how specifically the business is going to go about delivering that value. So that always is done first. We do our work and would always recommend that in that process, you're doing it with your stakeholders actively engaged.
Iit is somewhat fascinating to me that today, how many both Businesses and nonprofits engage in these sorts of processes in closed door, c suite only conversations, Only to find out that, you know, what they thought does not actually match up with [00:04:00] reality. You know, if you exist to Serve this particular population or this particular group of people, why not engage them and actually find out what they need from you, what's working, what's not, What outcomes you really need to help them to get to in order for you to really fulfill your purpose. So we always do that and have those working groups engaged throughout our process. So that's that if I had to pick one thing that a process should include, that would be number one. Number two would be Do the strategy first to make sure you're clear on that strategy so that when you sit down to actually build a plan, a road map, set goals, whatever that That looks like for you, you can use that core as a filter to say, should we even be doing this in the first place?
Is this the best way to go about doing what it is that we wanna do? And asking those types of tougher questions to be able to filter out what does not strategically fit for your business.
Eric Ressler: I resonate with so much of that. I wanna rewind to something you said earlier in the conversation [00:05:00] around Strategic planning is not something that should just be done every three to five years behind closed doors, but strategy is something that you're doing every day. And I think it's interesting from our perspective serving the social impact sector. We work with a lot of nonprofit strategic planning.
Even that term especially is very common in the space, and it is often done in this kind of grandiose once every three years, sometimes even ten years. I'm glad to see that trend going away. And it's an interesting thing from our perspective because when people come to us, they say, hey. We've just done a strategic planning process, or we're about to embark on a new three year strategic plan or whatever it is. And when I hear that, I say, I have no idea what that's going to look like when you give it to me because what we get from people from these various planning processes, whether they're done completely internally or without External consultants, the output of that and the insights from that process can be so different from client to client.
Sometimes they can be Actually quite [00:06:00] helpful. And sometimes they're not helpful at all, and we really have to kinda reverse engineer. And when we ask questions that, in theory, a strategic planning process should Lead to for the clients that we're working with, they can't answer some of these simple questions. So I really like this reframing around Strategy and plan, they're not separate. They need to be done together.
And also that strategy is something that you're doing every day, kind of leading back to what you called, I think, the core of the business and supporting that in your everyday actions. Yeah.
Katie Burkhart: One of the things that would be interesting for me to come you know, understand is what you're doing is something that we practice in our work is that And this is a longer conversation I'll skip over, but we we have we, in some cases, have gotten much more excited about the document, less excited about The action that we actually need to take. Right?
Like, we've created our strategy. Here it is in this document versus being, like, actually, It's the verb. [00:07:00] It's the activity that you're doing. It is the making of the choices. It is the enacting on those choices and understanding whether they were effective. That is really what strategy is all about. So getting people more comfortable with that, a big piece of that is asking the right questions and being able to, well, Answer them. Right? Like, we don't always need to make it so damn complicated. I don't know if you've gotten those, like, five hundred page dense PDFs that, like, some very large consulting firm put together, like, it may be genius, but, like, ain't nobody gonna read it. And in most cases, the organization didn't really participate in the development of that. So it's not theirs. They don't understand it because they did not produce it. So that creates all sorts of additional barriers. But from your point of view, what questions would you want to come out of a strict strategy or strategic process or even a strategic planning process for you to be more effective in what you're doing?
Because I think [00:08:00] you're on to something that it's like, hey - we're asking questions. We want the answers. We don't necessarily care what format you put your document in, But you need to have answers to these questions.
Eric Ressler: Yeah.
Exactly. And I think the way I think about it at a big picture level, when clients come to us, they're looking for some kind of transformational change. And so we need to understand a couple of things at a high level to be able to do that. The first part is we understand, like, where are we starting from? What's the snapshot look like today?
To a degree, how did you get to where we are today as an organization? And what have been some of the past challenges and opportunities? How have you overcome them? How have you used those opportunities to your advantage to, you know, create a way of doing things with a point of view as an organization. And then most importantly, where are you trying to go in the next year or two years or three years or whatever the right timetable is to look at.
So we need to understand very clearly what the desired future state is. And sometimes that's the part that seems [00:09:00] Very missing from a strategic plan in a very strange way. Or if there is that kind of desired future state, It'll be outlined, but there's no kind of pathway to get there. I think about it like, okay. We're at the bottom of the mountain.
We wanna get to the peak, And, you know, somehow, we're gonna get up there. And so I think some of the questions we often ask relate to things like fundraising, capacity building how we express the impact story, that's where we can really come in to help. But even questions sometimes like, okay. So here's your goal. Here's where you're trying to go.
What does that look like in terms of revenue generation? Like, you're a two million dollar a year nonprofit and you need to be, what, a ten million dollar a year to hit that vision, how are you planning to, Create that extra capacity for fundraising. What are some of the strategies? Often, our work leads to some of that, but we have to understand the bigger kind of Goal and vision and scaffolding from an organization [00:10:00] to be able to advise on how creative work and digital work can support that. And I think there is this kinda healthy tension between brand strategy, marketing strategy, digital strategy, messaging, some of the things that we do, And a broader organizational strategic plan or in the business world would just be called a business plan, right, or a marketing plan.
So I think That's where there should be a little bit of back and forth between our work and strategic planning or an organization just having a clear strategy. Yeah.
Katie Burkhart: There's two threads that you picked up on there that's really interesting to me. The first one is when people will say, well, what is strategy? Usually, the answer is, well, it's not the plan.
The strategy and the plan are two different things. And, unfortunately, what that's done is it's created a false wall between strategy and execution as if they were different. They're not. Right? You make choices whether you make them at the biggest level Or you make them in how you're interacting with [00:11:00] a customer in the storefront that day, you know, like, whatever that might be, how you're, You know, if you're a nonprofit, how are you communicating with people?
How, you know, how do you answer their question when they come to you? How do you reach out to donors? Like, all of that ends up being strategy. So that accidental you know, we did it to try to help people understand that making lots of goals. Like, you can make goals with no strategy and to try to deal with that.
But I think because that's become such a mantra, We've accidentally made it so that what ends up happening is you have there's these really cool, highly aspirational, Strategic priorities that sound really cool, and then there's, like, all the other stuff we do, versus really looking at all of this stuff is what we really need to understand and make sense of and should be folded into how we're moving forward. Revenue which is one that you zeroed in on is the other thread that I find really interesting in how [00:12:00] we do this. Businesses will love to sit and spend hours Making really cool revenue projections. You know, the reality is you don't actually control whether somebody buys your service or whether someone makes a donation. Like, you don't.
You are not in control of them. You cannot make them do it. But you can think through what your actions are and how you're designing that business to be effective in the first place. And I think nonprofits, I don't know how often you see this, but I see this, are in so much need of money. Right?
Like, they need money like anyone else. There's not as much thought put into how are you really designing that. You know, like, that is part of the design of your business, it should be strategic in nature. So most people think that the difference, for example, between a for profit and a nonprofit is that a for profit is there to make money, And nonprofits somehow don't need money, which is all sorts of wrong up one side and down the other. The difference in our view is the gap between The revenue source and the person served.
If you're a business, right, the person you [00:13:00] serve is your customer, they are also the source of your revenue. It's one of the most focused business models you can have. A true charity, there is usually a huge gap in between the person who can fund your efforts and the person who's benefiting from them, the person that's receiving the value. But sitting down and really understanding that, strategically, really thinking deliberately about we really wanna help this person or this group of people, How are we gonna get money to make this happen, really should be part of that process and is going to be huge. I had a third thought.
So sorry I said two. Here's three. It's gonna be huge for all of your work because brand is building that that experience the entire experience at not just messaging, but how you get the message, where you get the message, how you interact with the message, the whole digital experience because so much of it is digital, although there's there's room for in person, as far as how do you actually get out to these people, Communicate the value, communicate how [00:14:00] they get engaged, and why they should get engaged, to actually try to make that happen. So not having that conversation, Not really looking that as part of the strategy, just sort of seeing that as, you know, business as usual, I think is such a mistake, and I think it really guts some of your ability to go out and be incredibly deliberate in what you're recommending.
Eric Ressler: I completely resonate with that as well.
And I think that's why we spend so much time trying to understand the trajectory and the strategy as it relates to fundraising. Because as we as we've talked about, especially nonprofits, but even some, like, social enterprises who are more kind of like almost like startups often, especially in the early days, They're usually under resourced, and so they might be bootstrapping, or they may be around for thirty years and still under resourced because the sector is under resourced in general, which is A shame and something that a lot of people are are really working hard to fix, which is great. But I think there's this this sometimes there's a lack of Focus and clarity [00:15:00] of a point of view and a strategy for an organization that's under resourced because Having the time and the space and the capacity to have these bigger picture thoughts day to day is really hard when you're stuck In kind of a starvation cycle or reactionary thinking or really just trying to get through the next week of work, you have to have time to kind of put your head above water. And I think that is why often you see these kind of retreat style or, like, once every three year sessions is because it's just hard to plan for that weekly or daily.
I've noticed with strategy is that the simpler a strategy is, the more easily any given team member can articulate that strategy with understanding, the more likely it is that strategy will actually come to fruition. So you get these five hundred page documents. No one reads them to your point. No one understands them to your point. So how can you expect anyone to actually act on them in their given [00:16:00] role and contribution within the organization?
Katie Burkhart: You know, it's, It's sort of amazing when we see that, and one of the things it's very much based on old assumptions about work. And I'm Working on a larger conversation on this, so or article and thought process on this. So I apologize if it's a little scattered. But this whole concept of goal setting and in some cases, the planning piece of this itself is meant to be like, well, you know, we don't really want people to have to think that hard. Like, we wanna make sure that they totally understand and we can kind of mechanically put the pieces together, which admittedly, like, there's research that suggests that this simply doesn't work.
You know? So to your point about simplicity and there's such a brand connection or more specifically as A narrative connection, which I think is is, and I I humbly throw out there, desperately missing from the majority of what we see and we as an agency are working to Increase this with our with our own clients is the narrative. [00:17:00] Help me to understand simply what's happening. One of the best ways to do that is through story. And there's such an opportunity internally to sit and be able to say if these are the key choices that we're making as a business.
Right? We know our core, And these are the key choices or the key focus areas or the key levers, whatever phrase suits your fancy, that we're really focused on as a business right now, and these are targets that we've set out to hit over the next year, I'm looking for a narrative, something that helps me understand here's how those pieces connect together. No amount of cool cascading software replaces a human story that helps me understand how it goes together And preferably doing it with as few words as possible. We have really not and I don't put random word counts on things because that's not helpful. But we really work with clients to say, do you need to call it funky terms, or could you simply put it in a question And give them a good answer which I think can be a lot more accessible as [00:18:00] well.
I'm also curious as to, you know, what your thoughts are about the power Our of narrative and brand and storytelling and digital looking internally because that's what you're asking about is How do we deal with the connection and contribution and how we talk about this internally as much as I think people usually assume that brand faces
Eric Ressler: externally? I love that question so much because I think often people come to us through the lens of telling external stories to their various stakeholders. And the biggest stakeholder they often forget is their internal team. And that's actually often where the most power from the work that we do comes From because if we can weave a narrative in an authentic way that connects all of these different parts of what makes an effective strategy, what makes an effective organization in a way that the team can really distill a clarity of purpose for their work and see how they fit in To making that vision or that [00:19:00] purpose realized, that's when things can kind of unfold organically where you don't need to check the five hundred page deck on your Google Drive to see if you're hitting your marks or not.
And I think it really it reminds me of a couple other important elements that we think about with strategy that I'd be curious to to riff on a little bit with you here. And the two elements would be niche or in the business world would be referred to as kind of Positioning or maybe even approach to doing the work. And so that's one that I think we could really start with. And the other is I'd love to unpack a little bit How values and strategy work kind of synergistically. Because the way that I really like to think about values in any given organization is This is how we do things here, not so much these different words.
And, you know, we have values on our side. I think it's worth doing that exercise, but the values need to actually be kind of a code of conduct or an ethics system around how things are done at an organization, not [00:20:00] necessarily just words that Sound good.
So I'd be curious to hear your perspective on both of those elements and how they weave into strategy. So I think
Katie Burkhart: To your point about, like, niche position, etcetera, the way that we always sit down and look at it, because we rarely are working. So, like, one of the like, let's start with assumptions. Right? When you come into an organization, academically, it's great to talk about all of this, and usually, the tenor of the conversation assumes either implicitly or though we have the benefit of a blank slate. In most cases, you don't. You are coming into a business or an organization that exists, that has team members in place, That is executing on programs that are otherwise functioning, however well, doesn't matter, but something exists. Right?
So you are coming into something and if they are functioning vaguely well, they must be delivering value effectively or well enough to somebody to continue to exist. So you always have that assumption. And one of the big [00:21:00] things that we wanna look at as we look at the core is not only under it is where you get the two sided coin comes in. Right? People will ask and say, well, it's great That you're engaging, you know, my customers or the beneficiaries of my work in this process.
Like, are they just leading me around by the nose and I'm just gonna do whatever they ask for? The answer to that is no. What you wanna understand from them is what value do they need from you and really understand the layers that go into that value is always multidimensional. Once you understand that, you as a team can bring your amazing brain power and say, okay. How?
What are the actions that we are going to take, which is one of the questions answered in your core, as a business to deliver that most effectively? Of late. And one of the things that we push on when we're working with clients is, what are you uniquely positioned to do? Right? Like, what is that lattice work of actions That you do better than anyone else, more distinctly than anyone else and that that combination [00:22:00] really puts you in a unique as Possible because I don't actually believe there are total snowflakes out there.
But that puts you in a really good position to serve your specific person or community Really effectively, as effectively as possible. And really trying to push on that specificity, has a tendency to be a lessening exercise, not an additive process. Right? Like, what can we get rid of? Because we don't really need to do this you know, and just because everybody else is doesn't mean we need to too and understanding how they go together.
To be more specific about your question about, like, positioning, I think there is absolutely brand value to understanding that because you need to know what space you're then going to have to shout your message into. My hat is off to the people that try to navigate that, but there is strategic value. And the way I like to think about it is how do you see yourself when you look in the mirror? And this is not something that we always document. We do it for some clients when it is really valuable.
We don't for others. If [00:23:00] it was like, yeah, that didn't really tell us anything that that added a lot to this conversation or isn't captured elsewhere. But I think about Mattel, who recently has been coming out with Films like the Barbie movie and all of that and saying, we're not a toy company. We're an IP company. And understanding how you see yourself Does provide, I think, a really important framing, in a lot of cases that goes, oh, like, if we think about ourselves that way, I may make different choices, about what actions very specifically, what actions we choose to put into our core versus not.
So it's a really interesting question and has really pretty substantive overlap, I think, with brand, as far as your identity, You know, because there's you know, people think of identity, and they're like, your logo. And I'm like, yes. And, you know, like, so many Other things that actually go into your identity. I don't know if you have any, you know, thoughts on that or how you think about positioning and what you're [00:24:00] usually helping them to work through. But I would be curious as to sort of, how does that hit you?
And then I promise I won't forget your question about values.
Eric Ressler: Yeah. I think there's definitely a lot of overlap in how we think about this. And I think you brought up this idea of, like, what is it that you do differently or better than anyone else? And I think that's often a really good place to start.
The origin story of the organization is often a good place to look for clues. It might not be the final story, but to see, like, what was the kind of impetus for starting the organization in the first place? Because I think what often happens is there's some organic natural way that gets started or some spark that creates an organization. And then as the organization grows over time, especially in the non Profit space in the social impact sector where you start to see how your given cause or issue area relates to the larger issues at [00:25:00] play, you start to see how all these other problems are creating problems for your issue, and there's a natural tendency to wanna fix that too. Or other times you get a grant, and the grant is very restricted and focused on one program area or maybe even means you have to spin up a new program that's, like, tangentially related to what you do, but not really supportive of that kind of core Initial purpose of the organization.
And so you start to get this kind of constellation of programs and priorities, And it's like this mission creep that can kind of happen over time. And I think what we help our clients do a lot of times is really look at the base that they're playing in or the category or the focus area of their organization and say, who else is playing in this space? And They're not necessarily competitors. You could argue that maybe they are competing for dollars or grants, and so in certain ways, they are. But they're really more your partners at the end of the day in the social impact space, we're trying to solve intractable problems.
[00:26:00] We're not trying to be you know, grow business for the sake of growing business like you would in the corporate world. So if you look at it from that perspective, like, what are your unique strengths as an organization? What can you bring to the table for the issue, not just for your donors Or for your organization or for whoever's, you know, running your grants, but to actually make, like, meaningful Impact on the issue area. Where are you most valuable, and can you put more focus there and partner with other organizations who are maybe even better over here? I think the other thing that is important to consider as part of positioning is, you know, what is often referred to as a kind of point of view, which is kinda how you Think about the work or your perspectives on how the work should be happening or your approach.
It can kinda tie into the theory of change if you go through an exercise like that as a nonprofit, but it doesn't need to be. It just needs to be, how do you think about this work? So for example, our point of view When we think about doing digital work in the social impact sector is that you [00:27:00] need to think and act like a digital media company and not a charity. That's a way of thinking about our work That influences every decision we make with a client. There's other agencies in the nonprofit space, in the social impact space, and other designers.
They're all gonna have their own different point of view around how the work should be done. So I think that's an interesting element to consider when it relates to positioning, which then kind of informs strategy.
Katie Burkhart: It does. And it especially, it is we often think about that under the larger umbrella of storytelling. But as we were talking about earlier, like, The line between where strategy ends and where story begins is very, very gray.
You know, like, there's a reason why the art of war is written mostly, Like, comparable in story. You know, like, it's a very powerful piece of what's going on there. And I think a lot of handshaking needs to go on, to make sure that that all makes really good sense and, you know, the right people with the right skills and perspectives are sitting at the table to have those conversations, but spot on. And I [00:28:00] I'm sort of interested, and then I'll answer your original question, about your thoughts about You touched on something that I always think is, like, a really good and and I don't wanna say obvious, but, like, Yes. We should do that approach, which is to say, this is a thing that needs to be done, but it is not a thing for me to do.
It is a thing for that organization to do or that organization already does it, let's partner with them. And I'm curious, a, what your thoughts are about partnerships, particularly from a brand point of view because I think I I just feel like there's a lot of layers to potentially unpack there as to how how that works and what that means for how you Communicate not only to help people take advantage of whatever it is your partner does, but how you talk about that to other people. And then, of course, if you've seen any challenges with, and I'll I'll share the challenge that I've seen, you know, the fact that, Challenges in being able to pursue that. [00:29:00] And one of the challenges I see is it baked into the infrastructure of how a lot of nonprofits get funded, Which is if you're seeking grant fund money, most of them is tied to new programs. So if you're not launching a new program, you don't get the checky. Which is why I think a lot of nonprofits end up launching tangential programs because they're looking for money.
I'm just curious if you've ever had some of those conversations or, you know, been in that position of having to figure out how to brand Varying points that maybe shouldn't all be in one place, but you sort of don't have a choice, and sort of what that experience has been like for you as well as just General thoughts on partnership from a a brand point of view. You know, is it an opportunity? Is it a hindrance? Is it confusing?
Eric Ressler: All of the above.
Yeah. I mean, to speak to the first question around partnerships, I think, generally, we're a big fan of partnerships. If there is a potential for a mutually beneficial [00:30:00] outcome of that work. And where we see that is in these situations where there's multiple organizations working on an issue area, but in different ways. So, like, one example might be, like, a think tank versus a boots on the ground nonprofit where, like, the think tank is funded to have big ideas and think about them and and look at trends and look at patterns, but they're not Actually, doing boots on the ground work.
So they need the organizations who are actually working tangibly on these issue areas with the people that are affected by them To understand things from a less theoretical and more of a lived experience level. If you have only think tanks but no organizations actually executing or implementing, then it's just an exercise in thought. Right? And so you need both. So that's one example.
With regards to multiple programs being spun up and fighting for dollars and grants kind of mostly prioritizing new programs being spun up, There's definitely an [00:31:00] issue there. And I think it's an issue that's been, at this point, pretty well identified in the nonprofit sector and has led to what's hopefully a positive new trajectory or movement around trust based philanthropy, where There are less restricted grants or more general operating grants being written for organizations who have, you know, either a proven track record or a good relationship with a funder so that the funder really places more trust in the organization doing the work to guide Prioritization of funds, whether or not a new program should be spun up. And I think there's a very healthy push pull there. Like, I think There is potential and certainly examples of extreme waste in the nonprofit sector where a lot of money has gone into an organization or a number of organizations, and the impact of that work has been lackluster for various reasons. Right?
And then there's examples where I would say more commonly, there's really good intentions. There's [00:32:00] really good strategy, and there's just a lack of capacity. These organizations are under-resourced. They're not able to pay market rate for their employees. They're not able to invest in overhead and infrastructure because of these narratives around overhead being bad.
Yeah. And so I would say that there's a need for this sector to evolve and to become more sustainable with capital “S” in a way that actually creates impact. Because at the end of the day, those are the metrics that we need to be looking at. When we're doing this work, Does it actually improve people's lives? Does it actually move humanity forward?
And some of these problems will never be fully solved. They may end up being problems we just chip away at over time and make improvements over time. But other problems can be solved, and sometimes it is Literally, just a lack of money. Other times, it's a lack of clarity around the best approach or there are more intractable issues. So I think there's some good trends there, And I think where strategy really comes into [00:33:00] play with all of this is that if you have a clear strategy, a clear point of view as an organization, An effective way of telling that impact story in an emotionally driven way that's also clear at the same time, Then you have more opportunities as an organization to say, yes.
This is a good fit for us. No. This grant isn't a good fit for us, or to even educate funders or donors around where the priorities stand and how you can take those resources and most effectively apply them to your issue area. So I think it's all related, and that's why this conversation has been so interesting is because there is a need for strategy. There is a need for that to inform story, but story informs strategy.
So it's this kind of circular living thing. And it's really just fascinating to hear your perspectives around how you see it from your side of the work versus how we see it from our side. Okay. So let's get back To value. So I kind of framed this up originally as, you know, how do we think about values?
How do values inform [00:34:00] strategy? How are they rolled into strategy? If you think about values as just these words that you agree upon as being kinda guiding words you know, that can be kinda helpful. But I think, really, values should guide the work. It should really define and explain how you think about things and How you do things, day to day in an organization, but I'd be really curious to hear how values fit into your work and how you think about strategy.
Katie Burkhart: We have a very similar point of view on this one. What you typically see is people being like our values. You'll go to their website and you'll get, like, six words. And I can predict what half of them will be because most people come up with some of the same ones like collaboration, one of my favorites. Everybody wants to be Collaborative.
So collaboration is on, you know, everybody's website, and that's about all you get. Sometimes you get, like, longer sort of belief based statements. These are things we believe in. You know, we actually don't spend a phenomenal amount of time on on what people [00:35:00] believe, because that can get went to some very murky waters around the fact that you may have team members who believe different things and and how do we deal with with some of those moral and inclusive challenges. However, as a business, you all have to work together.
So understanding how do we do things here on this team Specifically, is a key component of your strategy. In fact, we put it into your core as a business. That's one of the questions that you must answer. How do we take the actions that we take as a business? And when we work to develop them, one, we don't have them developed by leadership.
Typically facilitate, the rest of the staff actually putting these together and understanding, you know, what What does work, you know, what doesn't work both from a how we work together as a team, as well as how does this advance Our ability to fulfill our purpose as an organization, and then they're always written we we would never ever suggest turning in a one word value. We want you to help [00:36:00] me show me what it's going to look like to practice that value and this is because we think of values as a filter for human behavior. Right? Like, this is How we're going to do things, show me what that's going to look like here. So we're big fans of values like, there's one at my company that says we put in an extra fifteen minutes.
You know, like, instead of saying we're trying to do really great work because, duh, isn't everybody, You know, the way that it's actually practiced here at our business that is really key to how we understand our work, how we think about our work, how we do our work is that we put in that extra fifteen minutes. And then underneath, there's a description of what that actually looks like. And we usually advise, and I try to do them myself for my own company values with bumper guards. Right? Like, you can take any practice too far, and actually end up with potentially unintended consequences or practices that You aren't looking for.
So trying to really make sure that you understand, like, for us, the bumper guard is perfect [00:37:00] isn't real. You know, like, yes, we want you to put in that extra bit of time to be sure that every dot is tied, every t crossed off, that it is the best that you can do, But realize perfect isn't real, you know, and at the end of the day, our clients need what they they need from us, and we need to move forward, and we can learn and improve Throughout the process. So thinking about that and really thinking about how you write them and how you share them is a big piece of advice. But to me, You have such an ability today to be specific in not just, hey, as a business, we offer these three service tracks, But here's how we offer the service. Here's how we communicate.
Here's the language that we choose to use. Like, you have so much opportunity To design your business to be specific that you should take advantage of that and really see it as not just a A nice culture building activity affects culture a hundred percent but really a part of [00:38:00] this is strategically going to allow us to deliver value to more effectively work together as a team and defines us as different. It's part of that lattice work and the combination of our actions from from other organizations
Eric Ressler: And businesses. Awesome. Yeah. And I really especially love having a portrayal of what that value looks like in action, I think that's so helpful to get specific because oftentimes values are these, especially if they're just written down as a word. It's up for interpretation, and people might, you know, interpret that word differently to mean something different in terms of how it shows up in actual work, or it can just be very vague. Like, what does empathy look like in our work, for example? And so we've Done a pretty good job, I think doing that here at Cosmic, but even having this conversation is getting my gears turning around. Like, how can we even, like, take that to the next level with some specific examples, Beyond just conversations that we have every day.
So, Katie, I've really enjoyed the conversation. Thanks so much for joining [00:39:00] today. How can people get in touch and follow you and keep up with the work you're doing? The best
Katie Burkhart: The way to get a hold of me is to find me on LinkedIn. You can always, you know, connect with me. I accept connections from everyone. I have unconnected with only a handful of very bad salespeople. And if you want to have a coffee with me, drop me a message, and we'll set one up. I'd love to meet you. The other best way to stay in contact with me and and some of what I'm thinking about, what's going on is to subscribe to my Substack, which is called WTP, which stands for What's the Point, and you can find it at w t p focus dot substack dot com.
Eric Ressler: Thanks so much for joining today, Katie.
Katie Burkhart: Thank you so much for having me.